Maybe he meant the built-in astromech then. Who knows. I don’t think it is important to the story. Feels like just an offhand remark, probably observing all the special modifications.
I think he meant the “Fondor Droid Mod” which is what the ship’s robot brain is called in the show’s subtitles. That’s basically a Autopilot Droid Brain attachment from SWRPG! I love it when concepts from the game play out in live action!
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I’ve watched the first two episodes, and I can see why they released three at a time.
Overall, I’d rate the story 8/10 and the actual show 5/10, mostly for wasted time.
I really liked the beginning, although the brothel scene was… weird. Maybe it was just a slow night? But perhaps it’s all just excellent writing, and it’s really just a poorly run establishment. After all, there weren’t any girls around, those that were were fully clothed, the madam was abrasive to her clients, and the atmosphere was terrible. Would explain why it’s struggling to attract business.
Jokes aside, that struck me as very odd. If their goal was to avoid a lewd scene (an approach I support), there were other ways they could have handled it even within the same context of checking a brothel for his sister.
I don’t really understand the “Rebellion building” thing. It mostly looks like everyone is just doing their thing, with no Imperial pressure in sight. It’s all interpersonal or “oh I killed two cops, including shooting one in the head while he was begging for his life” and therefore not particularly sympathetic. There’s been nothing that really happened yet that made me say “look, bad guys!”
The thing is, I’m actually rooting for the assistant deputy whatever his name is lieutenant-type guy at this point. Andor did kill two guys, and Lieutenant Lockjaw’s the only one who’s really showed any kind of moral backbone. The corporate police characters have been the most interesting to me, including the supervisor guy who left for whatever conference. His explanation for why to doctor the report was interesting and nuanced.
Also, Disney has a serious diversity problem. Of all the characters in the show, all the characters with voicelines, there is only a single alien speaking part and he gets all of two lines—so they can portray him as an idiot.
All of the aliens in this show look reused to me. The ones in the back of the shuttle when the stranger guy who never talks is talking to the random salesperson are recycled from Passana in RoS, while we even see Crusher Roodown in the background of one of the crowds. Because apparently it’s a common thing to chop the arms off of overgrown Abednedo and then replace them with a bright yellow exoskeleton.
They are limited in being a live action show, I don’t deny that, but one of the advantages Clone Wars and Rebels had going for them was the use of aliens, both bringing in new designs for established aliens and inventing new ones, while also having prominent alien characters.
Pacing
I think there’s a whole lot of potential here, and a pretty good underlying story, but I think they messed up the pacing. They currently have several plotlines running simultaneously, some of which seem rather pointless. It isn’t wrong necessarily to have several plotlines, but in this case I think it detracts from the sense of urgency they’ve tried to cultivate with Cassian’s attempts to get offworld. We cut away from him so often, and he does so much not directly connected to getting offworld that it makes the whole thing very casual.
(Note: I’m not saying slow is a bad thing, I’m saying this feels stretched out, like butter scraped across too much bread. Better one 45-minute episode than two 32-minute episodes.)
Were I re-cutting it, I would cut it down to a single episode. For starters, I would eliminate all the flashbacks and leave his sister up to your imagination (the imagination is an underutilized tool nowadays). Nothing has happened yet in those flashbacks to actually further much of anything in the story, and the worldbuilding of the Kinari makes no practical sense to me. They aren’t native aliens, they’re humans. So either they went native, or were forced into primitive circumstances by something that happened. Otherwise, why would they have regressed so far technologically? Something brought them there. And the use of the “Kinari” language also bothers me from both the practical and worldbuilding sides. On the practical side, the viewer cannot understand anything actually being said even if he can intuit some things from context and body language (you’re essentially depriving yourself of one of your greatest tools, nuanced language), and on the worldbuilding… why? Why do they seemingly have their own language? They colonized from somewhere else at some point, they had to, so why not speak basic? They aren’t shown as being integrated into an alien civilization.
Anyway, I have a preference for stories that are more direct and make careful use of their time. This doesn’t feel like that, but I like the underlying story so I look forward to seeing where it goes from here. Hoping it gets better once things start to move faster.
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I cannot comprehend the feel of wasted time. I was tired of the fast pacing, flashy and often ridiculusly unrealistic Star Wars like clone wars, bad batch and rebels and love the aproach of Andor in terms of storytelling, characterization and credibility. the mandalorian was a great step in the right direction but it still had it´s silly moments like with the two scouts shooting and missing at point blank.
I was happy with every episode. The only complaint I have that they are too short.
I am surprised that you were so bored that you stopped after the second episode even though you were aware that the first three episodes were meant to watch in a row.
That´s a bit like stop watching a 90 minute movie after 60 minutes and complaining about the slow pacing when you intentionally cut the ending.
I really liked the beginning, although the brothel scene was… weird. Maybe it was just a slow night? But perhaps it’s all just excellent writing, and it’s really just a poorly run establishment. After all, there weren’t any girls around, those that were were fully clothed, the madam was abrasive to her clients, and the atmosphere was terrible. Would explain why it’s struggling to attract business.
yes, or it could be that it´s a weekday late in the evening with naturally slower business. Additionally it is a very expensive establishment so another explanation for less customers. Most important are the two corporate guys. Nobody wants to be seen with or by them or be in their company. The girls too which stay behind until they are gone.
Jokes aside, that struck me as very odd. If their goal was to avoid a lewd scene (an approach I support), there were other ways they could have handled it even within the same context of checking a brothel for his sister.
As there was nothing wrong with the scene for me I do not think that there was any reason to change the way he was looking for her.
What a strange approach. So you did not like Andor in Rogue one too, because he killed one of his own men to escape and protect the rebellion. We knew that he does not hesitate to be violent so the killing was no surprise. Besides, there was not much choice, or to be fair, he had some which would him ended in a cell.
And I am surprised that you need to see something that make you say “look, bad guys”
The show obviously assumes that the watcher know the Star Wars universe and the battle of the empire and the rebellion and that´s okay. I am pretty sure 98% of all watchers do.
And that´s totally fine. I found the assistant deputy and his actions pretty understandable too. From his point of view and the law he serves he is perfectly right.
That is the beauty of the show. It creates believable characters. No matter on which side or which occupation.
Don´t know if that´s a good enough reason to especially dislike of all things this show. Especially after watching the first 2 episodes.
Yes, but these are examples of animated shows, and it´s much easier to implement alien races if you can create them and their physical features on a computer and have not to worry to achieve the same in real life. I remember when Ahsoka was introduced in the mandaloroan show and the silly outrage of a part of the SW community because her Lekku were too short.
It´s difficult to implement. And as I said before. We are at one thrid of the show now and I see no issue why both planets have a mainly human population/workforce.
On the contrary. I see no issues with the pacing. If you don´t get the urgency of Andoran to leave the planet I don´t know what else you need. He needs to get off world but cannot leave until a specific time. Of course does he do other stuff in the meantime. Realistic social encounters with friends and his foster mother because he´s going to leave.
And do we really need to understand the Kinari language to understand what they discuss and what the do? No, we don´t, that´s the beauty of this approach. All you need to do is watch and keep attention.
I found this very refreshing.
The show makes careful use of it´s time for my liking.
It´s just not to anyones liking.
My impression is that episodes 1-3 were some kind of intro.
The next episode hat another kind of pacing and was great, but I won´t bet anything of a much faster storytelling than before
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I’m glad you enjoy it. Pacing, however, is not directly related to storytelling, characterization, or realism. Pacing is a tool to be used within and around those elements. I’m not saying it should be “fast-paced,” I’m saying it’s too slow-paced. I think they could have condensed it to 45-50 minutes while maintaining the slower pace, storytelling etc. and having a better show overall.
One way in which the pacing could be vindicated later on is if things that seem extraneous turn out to have greater importance, but when the importance is not evident on the front-end, the viewer is not able to as easily invest in what’s happening on screen.
Let’s call that “foreshadowing” vs. “postshadowing.”
In foreshadowing, you set up elements on the frontend that take on more significance when they are fulfilled (and increase the significance and understanding of a future scene), but themselves serve a role at the moment in the story so that the significance is not lost.
In postshadowing, you set up elements that are then fulfilled or explained later, but themselves either present the wrong impression at the time, or lack independent significance, and rely on something later.
Both are tools. I think foreshadowing is more generally useful. Because I haven’t seen the entire show, I don’t know how some things will turn out. Maybe the Kinari stuff does end up being more necessary than I expect.
I didn’t stop because I was bored, I stopped because I ran out of time. Also, wasn’t it originally planned to release two episodes, and then they decided to release three instead?
Regardless, you’re assuming something I didn’t say.
I didn’t say they should have. It’s a perfectly valid way to handle the scene, and I actually like the concept. My comment was just that 1. the way they set the scene felt very weird, and 2. if they were intentionally trying to avoid lewdness, they could’ve gone about it in a way that felt less strange, while maintaining the same context.
I really liked the scene in Rogue One. This one felt different to me.
In Rogue One, the guy isn’t going to get out of the situation. If he’s captured, he’ll be able to expose other agents of the Rebellion, which will lead to more deaths. He makes a hard decision, and then expresses remorse for the choice he had to make. He was a spy, and spies get their hands dirty. It also set the tone for his character, which was especially relevant throughout the rest of the movie (foreshadowing).
In this scene, the guy is actively begging for his life, and trying to offer him a way out of the situation. Understandable why he wouldn’t trust it. Understandable even why he chose to shoot him. But it isn’t very sympathetic. The guy who died from hitting his head? That was great. Realistic. You usually don’t see people in fiction die like that, but it really does happen. That’s heat of the moment, unintentional. Once that happens, I feel sympathy for both of the remaining characters. When Andor chooses to shoot him in the head, I lose sympathy for him.
Have we seen the Empire? At the moment, this is a criminal vs. law enforcement. There is nothing at the moment to say “Andor is justifiably opposing an oppressive regime.” He’s looking out for his own skin after an incident he didn’t start, but finished badly. We also get the distinct impression that those two dirty cops were operating outside the approval of their organization, and had been previously reprimanded.
Did I say that I disliked the show for this? No. Did I even say I disliked the show? No. I am critical of the pacing of the first two episodes. That’s essentially it. Like I said, I so far rate the story 8/10. I think the pacing detracts from the story.
I said they were examples of animated shows. That was a large part of my point. That doesn’t change the fact that I believe they are underutilizing aliens. Now that I think of it, though, Boba Fett and Mandalorian did live action aliens pretty well. Maybe they made a story decision to not have many aliens.
As for the Ahsoka thing, that was not the main complaint. Most people who didn’t like the live action Ahsoka, me included, had other, much larger issues. That was just one more on the pile. For example, my main issue was that they tried to have a human in live action fight like a superpowered alien in animation, and it didn’t work well.
Episode three was excellent, 7/10.
The fight scenes were very well done, and I appreciated their slower, more deliberate pace, the mutual inaccuracy, and the utilization of the environment. The scenes with Bix and Timm were quite good, though the part where she jumps to the conclusion that he reported Cassian is a bit odd since it isn’t clear how much he overheard, with the amount he overheard being very important within the scene. She just assumes he overheard (almost) none of it and jumps off from there.
I like Rebellion guy, whose name escapes me. The tactics and combat were really quite excellent, I know I already said that but I was genuinely impressed with some of the very minor details. One in particular is the cop not taking his hand off the trigger in order to work his comm. It is not an uncommon error to have a soldier or cop take his hand off of the trigger in order to do something, while holding the gun in his left hand.
I really only have two complaints, without which it would be 8/10.
The first is the Kinari stuff. Again, it’s only “so far,” but it adds nothing to the story. None of it is the least bit relevant to what is currently going on, and hardly even makes sense.
For one thing, why “Republic officer” when they’re wearing CIS markings? The other thought I had was “Tarkin Initiative,” but that doesn’t match up with “Republic” either.
Nor does any of this have any resemblance to “I’ve been in this fight since I was six years old.”
Oh, and he sure had a positive reaction to being forcibly kidnapped.
The other complaint, which I am actually more put out by, is the use of an English swear word. Aside from “hell” and “damn,” this is the first real-world swear I think they’ve ever used in a movie or show and it really bothers me! Coming up with Star Warsy words and names for things has always been a part of Star Wars’ charm.
Yeah I noticed this also. I can’t imagine that no one in the entire production would have noticed the error. So, I can only speculate it was not an error. From the Kinari’s point of view, everything outside their world might be considered, “The Republic”.
Well, the series is called, “Andor” so I’m ok with it telling the story of young Andor in flashbacks.
His world was devastated by outsiders who came to the world to strip mine? This could have happened when he was 6. From his point of view he may have been hating and fighting outsiders, “The Republic”, from that point forward.
I got the distinct impression Maarva wasn’t from Kinari. At the very least, she has a spaceship and more knowledge of the rest of the galaxy than the seemingly primitive “Kinari.”
The concept of flashbacks to his younger years does not bother me. In fact, I expected it. The story they chose to present in those flashbacks, as they chose to present it, does.
He’s older than six in the flashbacks we’ve seen. The way they show the circumstances on Kinari also suggests that he had only just started to take up any kind of “fight” duty by that point (the ash). There’s little to suggest that any kind of organized resistance to much of anything is taking place, particularly given how (understandably) traumatized they were by the older girl’s death and their apparent naivety in that short combat (the blowdarts strike me as implements for hunting/self-defense, not truly for combat). It was evidently not something they saw with any degree of frequency, if ever.
Given past experience (Kanan, most… jarringly), it strikes me instead as doing away with previously established or hinted lore in favor of whatever they want to do in the moment. Based on what we are getting, I really would rather they had left his childhood up to our imagination.
Word is, these flashbacks are taking place not during, but before the Clone Wars.
This is the same production team that, when giving Cassian a new homeworld, still threw in a nod to the backstory provided in the Rogue One Visual Guide by establishing it as a cover story. So, I think it’s safe to say that the emblem isn’t an error, but simply that we don’t understand the context (yet?).
Episode four was excellent, 9/10.
The general dialogue was good enough, but the few key scenes (big office meeting, what’s-his-face arguing with Vel, the meeting with Mon Mothma, and a couple others that evade my specific recollection) were exceptionally good. I particularly enjoyed the “disease” speech. I’m a sucker for a well-thought-out monologue, and that was absolutely perfect.
The architecture of the scenes in this episode was also outstanding, thinking particularly of the ISB offices, Mon Mothma’s place, the gallery, and the apartment complex. The ISB officers in particular were utilized well in the monologue, contrasting the white purity and hospital-like sterility with all the talk of sickness and treatments etc.
The only thing that bothered me at all was the AK-47s. I love how Star Wars in the past used particular guns as props, including fairly iconic ones like the MG-34 (or MG-42, I never can remember the difference) for the DLT-19, but this is a bit too far. The main problems I see are that they didn’t do much to “Star Warsify” the gun, the distinctive gas impingement system is obviously visible, and they kept the mag, which is very slugthrower-specific. The AK is so distinctive and recognizable that it just sticks out like a sore thumb.
Yes I thought this was a mistake also. But, I suppose it’s subjective. The most easily recognizable Star Wars weapon, the Stormtrooper E11, is a Sterling SMG with a scope and some metal “ribs”. Old British vets when Ep IV came out probably thought that was too glaringly obvious too. Andor’s pistol was easily recognizable to me as a very cut-down AR15/M4 since I’ve been issued one at work since 1992. But, the average viewer isn’t going to notice and it was modified. The U-wing door gun was an M60 with parts added, which I once carried in the military. They should have at least modified the AK (cut off the barrel, add the usual Star Wars scope that they put on everything, dropped the magazine?) since it is in at least 2nd place, if not 1st, for the most recognizable military rifle in the world.
I always have fun trying to figure out what base weapon they used. This one was instantly recognized by too many.
I hate to mention it, but perhaps it was a political comment. Perhaps they wanted it to be noticed for a realworld freedom fighter comparison?
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That’s exactly how I think. Beyond the various mechanical mismatches that make sense for a conventional rifle and not so much a blaster, it’s broadly recognizable by everyone, not just gun nerds.
One of the keys to using real-world weapons is to instill a subtle instinctual understanding. A sniper rifle that looks similar to a sniper rifle will fit seamlessly into the worldbuilding (while one that does not makes you wonder). A helicopter’s pintle-mounted machine gun that resembles a helicopter’s pintle-mounted machine gun will have the same effect. But if it’s just the same thing, then it breaks you out of the worldbuilding because it doesn’t belong.
If that was their intention, it’s pretty depraved, but that’s Hollywood’s usual way of being and it’s nothing we haven’t seen from them before.
Just first impressions after latest heist episode. I’ll try not to insert any spoilers.
- They did a masterful job with the tension, which should be number one in any heist plot.
- Loved the TIE base/launch.
- Thoughts about the boy?
- It’s a tiny gripe, but they really need someone to at least ask a person with military experience if they have appropriate commands during a military episode. Either Imperial Army squads are only 4-person, or they should have used something like, “group”, “element”, or “team” in giving commands. Well, except that one time when they inconsistently called the 4-person group a “company” which is 20-60x that size.
- A reference to Ghormans. Is the “massacre” and Tarkin going to show up in Season 2? or will it be off-screen? I have hope since Rogue One already laid some digital ground work that could be reused.
- I wonder who would win in a quick draw between Solo and…
- THIS was the big pay off we were leading up to!!!
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I’m thinking it will be off screen, but being an inciting event during season 2. Season 2’s going to cover 4 years (I presume, if they keep the same sort of format, each 3-episode arc will occur in a different year.) leading directly into Rogue One. We know from Rebels season three that the Ghorman massacre is what prompts Mon Mothma to openly declare rebellion, so that would theoretically sync up with the second season 2 arc for Andor. I wouldn’t be surprised if that second arc begins with the massacre having just happened, and the reactions to it, and closing with Mon Mothma making the declaration then leaving to go to Rebels’ “Secret Cargo.”
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I am just so happy with this show.
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Andor is superb! The heist episode was heart pounding excitement! But the build up of the prior two episodes is what invested the audience in the action. It wasn’t just “steal the credits.” We got to know the players before the action which made the action tense. Really great lessons in storytelling for RPGs. As the GM, you need to spend the time making your NPCs real before you kill them off.
These three episode storytelling sets are pure gold for GMs! Introduce → colorize → action!
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Well said. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Very well said, and I agree entirely, the three episoide “storylines” are also all interconnected, we saw the first three, how Cassian meets Luthen, then we see the results of that, Luthen is building towards something
One thing I never knew about Mothma though, she had a family
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In Legends, Mothma’s son died at the Battle of Hoth. He was the one who issued the warning that “Imperial troops have entered the base!”
I also loved what they did with Mon Mothma’s family. First, she has a family instead of just being this fancy spoken senator. Second, the family itself feels like another conflict for her. Third, she seems to be part of the conflict! No doubt she’s been too busy to nurture that relationship with her daughter. Meanwhile, her hubby is an amoral rich snob… or just bored while his wife”s attention is elsewhere. As if fighting the galactic empire in the heart of its power was not hard enough, she also has drama at home! This is great story telling for GMs! Give your NPCs difficult family as motivations, complications and maybe for nice a dash of humanity.
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