Hi,
Just a quick question. If a weapon, like Incendiary Micro-rockets, has both Burn and Blast. Will only the target suffer from the Burn Quality, or everyone that were hit by the Blast?
Thanks!
Weapons with Burn inflict damage over time. If the attack is successful, the target continues to suffer the weapon’s base damage each round for a number of rounds equal to the weapon’s Burn rating. Damage is applied at the start of each of the target’s turns.
Looks like only the original target, and only if you hit them with the attack. If the original target and others were ALL hit by Blast, then nobody can be under the Burn effect.
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@SuperWookie is correct, on a RAW interpretation. Personally, I allow things like Burn etc. to be triggered on people hit by Blast (including on a failed check) since I think it makes sense. Each iteration must be separately triggered, however, making the chances of setting multiple people on fire relatively slim since you’d need 1 Success and 6 Advantage at a minimum to do so.
There are a couple examples of weapon qualities being triggered en masse, and those are both grenades. The BKX-4 “Shockwave” Grenade triggers Knockdown and Disorient at Short range even if they are not damaged by the weapon, and the Concussion Grenade operates identically, with just Disorient.
My ruling is comparable to Auto-fire, which does allow you to inflict crits or other weapon qualities on hits to subsequent targets.
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Three advantages to trigger Blast, then two advantages for each target you wanted to Burn. So that would be at least 7 advantages to Burn two enemies. Still a tall order, so it’s not broken to rule it that way either.
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though you still can work on the needed advantages by using attachments/modding and jury rigging.
I don’t think you can use jury rigging on ammunition. Those are the things with the Burn quality.
I am not sure. The talent description say:
The character chooses one personal weapon or piece of armor per rank of Jury Rigged. He may increase the damage of the weapon by one; decrease the Advantage cost on its Critical, or any single other effect by one to a minimum of one;
So I guess you would only need 1 advantage to trigger Blast.
The chances are good that I am wrong, though.
But since it’s the micro-rocket or grenade that has the blast and burn quality, I guess you could jury rig a grenade to only cost one advantage to trigger blast. But since both micro-rockets and grenades have Limited Ammo 1, you’d need to appy it to a new micro-rocket/grenade after using i.
If my GM would allow jury rigged grenades/micro-rockets, she’d probably not allow it to be applied to a new one during a fight at all, so it would be a useful once per encounter if it was allowed at all.
Per RAW, there is nothing I see that restricts Jury Rigging grenades, and that seems to have been the consensus on the old forum as well.
The main sticking point is the absence of any rules regarding how and when to apply it. Action? Hours at a work bench? Proper tools?
However, I do believe that it is narratively inappropriate and contrary to the RAI.
Here are my arguments for and against:
Jury Rigged is not necessarily just a mechanical improvement (though it certainly can be that), but represents the character tweaking the item to what works best for them. Through this personalization and familiarization, the weapon is more effective.
There is narrative flexibility here, making it easy to make the talent narratively appropriate to a given situation (Jury Rigging an ally’s weapon, an ally picking up a Jury Rigged weapon, etc.).
I believe that the RAI is for something like a personal blaster or vibrosword. Something personal to the character that will be kept around and in-use long term.
How I read, interpret, and rule the talent
The character chooses one personal weapon or piece of armor per rank of Jury Rigged. He may… …The bonus only applies so long as the character is using the item. If the item is ever lost or destroyed, the character may apply Jury Rigged to a new personal weapon or piece of armor.
My read of the RAW:
- Apply to item.
- Item not in owner’s hand: No effect.
- Item lost/destroyed: Remove effect, apply to new item.
My interpretation of the RAI:
- Apply to item you’ll be keeping around and using long-term.
- Character not using item: No effect, it requires the character’s knowledge.
- Alternate interpretation: Refers to if the item is commonly “in use” by the character as in not “retired” in favor of an alternate item (“I don’t need this [weapon], I have [new weapon] now!”).
- Item lost/destroyed: The effect is moot (see point 2), so apply to new item instead.
- Application requires narrative time.
My ruling, based on RAI:
- Apply to qualifying item (no consumable weapons).
- Item not being operated by owner: No effect, it requires the character’s knowledge.
- Note: I am sympathetic to the alternate explanation, but do not rule it that way.
- Item lost/destroyed: The effect is moot, so apply to new item instead.
- Application requires narrative time, dependent on the sort of modification necessary. Training requires some time to practice, while technical modification just requires some downtime and a pair of safety glasses. If the new item is the same item as was previously JR, maybe even just an Action and a Mechanics check if in structured time.
So it’s mostly a personal affinity, with maybe some personalized tweaks.
That’s me. But other people read and rule it differently, so in discussing the problems, I will sometimes contradict my own understanding of the talent.
The Grenade Question
One of the important questions about narrative appropriateness for grenades is “if you can modify one, why not modify them all?” Say you’re carrying four Frag Grenades. You throw one that’s Jury Rigged, and now you have three that aren’t.
If you can immediately reapply JR, all well and good. But what if you hand a grenade to someone else? It isn’t Jury Rigged? Why not? It has to be a personal “affinity,” then.
(The mechanical reason why it isn’t is if you keep your Jury Rigged grenade. If you handed off a Jury Rigged grenade, then why in haran do you have to wait for him to throw the grenade before you can get a bonus on another grenade?)
But if you rule that it can’t be changed instantaneously, then why does said affinity only work on the first grenade each encounter or session?
Or whether it’s affinity or technical, why can it be instantaneously transferred to a completely different item? Why didn’t you already have that effect, and how do you spontaneously generate it? If it’s technical, there is literally no reason why you can’t apply the effect to multiple grenades simultaneously, since because it isn’t a reusable modification, you need many of it anyway.
I think the best way to do it for grenades is to stipulate that “X type of grenade” has “Y benefit” when used by the character. RAW? No, but it’s close and makes more sense.
When the item falls out of use (“Ooo, a new, shinier grenade!”), the benefit can be extended to a different item.
An alternative, one I quite like, actually, is to Jury Rig a grenade launcher to trigger Blast for 1 less Advantage. Now whatever grenades it launches, it can trigger Blast for less. This holds to what I believe is the RAI (non-consumable weapons).
"But those objections can be raised about regular weapons!"
Yes, some of them can. If it’s an affinity, why does that affinity remain when passed to a friend? If you’re a clone trooper and you Jury Rig your DC-15 technically, why can’t you do that for all your brothers too?
You can weasel out of these problems much more easily than you can with grenades. For example, you are solely responsible for the care of your own rifle. What’s true for you is true for everyone else. You increase its performance (hey, maybe it’s because you’re really good at cleaning and maintaining it!), and now when someone else picks it up it retains the same benefit. But if that person keeps it long term (see the “character is using the item” clause), the effect of the original owner’s expert maintenance is lost.
Now, you lose that weapon. If you can instantaneously transfer the effects of Jury Rigged, then you can add it to another weapon the moment you pick it up. So it must be affinity?
See, this is the problem with instantaneity. And what does “only applies while the character is using the item” mean? That’s a very key question, and, as mentioned, I interpret it to mean that Jury Rigged has no effect unless the character is the one wielding it. However, I can certainly understand combining that clause with the later “lost/destroyed” clause and saying that the character doesn’t have to be the one “wielding” it, as long as it is still in his “use,” and that “use” has more to do with whether it’s been “retired” or not.
Jury Rigged is an interesting and useful talent, but these vagaries are why there are so many topics discussing how to use it.
Here’s how I ruled it in-game the one time it came up:
Player: Since Jury Rigged is passive, I’ll use it on the grenade to reduce the advantage cost on its Blast Quality while it remains in use (so literally just for the one attack.) (Assuming you’re okay with this. It’s not an action, but I’ve seen it allowed and not by different GM’s. The talent is on EotECore 138 if you want to double check it yourself. I’ll wait on your ruling before posting IC.)
Me: In general, I’d say no, I don’t think it fits the spirit of the rule, even if it is technically legal. However, I’ll allow it this once since the results are awesome.
One option for it to stick is to apply it to all of your crafted Frag Grenades, and then once you’ve expired your stockpile, you can apply it to something else.
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