Conversion for SoiaF and GoT

Hi guys,

i started to make a Genesys conversion for George R.R. Martins Song of Ice and Fire world, as I didn’t like the official rpg rules and stumbled over the Dark Heresy Conversion for Genesys that really hooked me to the Genesys RPG. Lately we also picked up Star Wars and I really love the game and how Genesys and the story dice give me mechanics that supports our game style.

I also own the Warhammer 3rd edition but in my eyes FFG made some aspects too complicated that they solved with Genesys but I was lacking a fantasy world I could indulge in.

Of course the conversion is a fan made product and not intended to sales or marketing just for her Genesys enthusiasts to explore.

As I live in China and my free time is limited, I would like to share my starting ideas and conversion and would like to ask the community if someone would be willing or interested in helping me finish the project or give me constructive criticism.

Of course feel free to use it as it is and create your own rule sets if you want but I hope someone would be interested in developing it step by step together with me just for fun and to have a new setting to play the system in.

Currently as I am not sure if I can post the conversion to the forum (please advice if I can) please message me and I send you the word file as work in process.

Thanks a lot for your attention.

Feel free to post it. Fan-made conversions and expansions are common and acceptable.

I don’t know much about GoT, but I know the system pretty well and may be able to advise.

Ok cool I will post it but I have to convert it to a foto format first as I can’t upload word files currently. I will do it tomorrow when I am back in Europe.

SoIaF conversion.pdf (318.4 KB)

I would really also like to know what you think about the injury and jousting tables. Thanks in advance

Since you asked specifically about those, I gave them a look first, starting from “Jousting and Horseback Riding Ruleset.” I don’t know how much of that is directly ported from Genesys, so I’m looking at it on its own merits.

(FYI, the tables don’t show up as tables; they just have the |’s separating them)

Looking at the Failure Consequences, those would fall more into the jurisdiction of Threat or Despair. Failure means that you fail the task you were attempting. If you fail a check to stay on the horse, you would fall off the horse. If you fail a check to stop your horse from spooking, it would spook. But if you fail a check to charge, it doesn’t therefore mean you fall off the horse. There are different ways to mechanically adjudicate such a failure. Maybe the horse balks, maybe the horse wheels, etc. I would certainly leave the consequences up to the GM, but the proposed consequences belong in the realm of Threat and Despair.

Why do the mounts have Soak below their Brawn? Every one of them has a Soak equal to Brawn-1. Base Soak for creatures is equal to Brawn, and some animals would be particularly tough, increasing their Soak. Horses, like any creature, are pretty vulnerable in certain spots, but they’re also pretty hard to take down. Mounts in FFG Star Wars have Soaks/WTs that hover around 5/15. Even if you think 15 WT is a bit high, and it may well be, I think 4-5 Soak is about right for most mounts.

A note on speed: I don’t remember how Genesys does mount speed, but the SWRPG sets speed to half Agility (rounded up). I recommend instead allowing the horse to move the equivalent of a number of Maneuvers equal to Agility. So an Agility/speed 1 creature moves at the same speed as a person, an Agility/speed 2 animal covers twice the distance, etc. In a setting without vehicles, I think this method of handling it is easier to wrap one’s head around and mix into encounters.

I like the special effects you gave the horses. They do a great job at distinguishing them.

Attacking from horseback at speed shouldn’t add Boost. For Melee attacks, it changes your reach and limits your mobility. For Ranged attacks, it makes your target a moving target if it wasn’t already, and accelerates the movement if it already was. It makes the math a lot harder, and that’s before factoring in the necessity of controlling the horse and/or maintaining balance. For Ranged, I’d add Setback per Speed (with perks and equipment to reduce that) and for Melee, I would add a Setback to attacks made at Speed 0. However, melee attacks made on horseback could add the mount’s current Speed to damage. The advantage of horse archers lies in their mobility and flexibility, the advantage of cavalry lies in their heavy-hitting and shock value.

Galloping, not galopping

Looking at the Riding checks, it looks like every time a mounted character is hit, they have to make a check to keep their seat? I think that’s better left in the realm of narrative results. E.g., “2 Advantage: If the target is mounted, force them to make an Average Riding check to keep their seat.” Something to that effect. Having it apply on every hit makes it highly likely that the character will be unseated given enough hits, and slows the game down by requiring a lot of “saving throws.” Additionally, this increases the value of Knockdown weapons, because they can directly unseat a rider when other weapons don’t natively have that ability. In my 2 Advantage example, this would effectively mean that Knockdown weapons do the same thing, but without the opportunity for the character to save.

I have a similar issue with having Riding checks required alongside attack checks. This adds multiple points of Failure to an attack, so even if you assume the character has a 70% chance of passing each check, that nets out to a 49% chance of actually succeeding in aggregate. Not only does it slow the game down, but it undercuts the character’s effectiveness. Moving a horse to engage is, in my view, a simple Maneuver. I would recommend making a Charge a brute-force horse attack, the cavalry smashing into enemy lines. Moving at Speed 2 or higher, deal damage equal to the mount’s Brawn+Speed+rider’s melee weapon damage (so a Sword with +2 damage would deal Mount Brawn+Speed+2). Something more like that. One check abstracts both the horse’s impact and the rider’s attack. Failure would result in the horse balking or wheeling at Short range of the enemy, leaving you vulnerable to a counterattack.

Trample is an interesting concept. I would execute slightly differently, though. I’d make it a standard attack with a base damage equal to twice the mount’s Brawn, but add the Blast quality (at Brawn) alongside Knockdown. A horse that rears and kicks is extremely dangerous. 1 Wound and 2 Strain doesn’t cut it, and in most circumstances isn’t useful. At the same time, guaranteed knocking Prone is pretty strong, but out of step with how this system executes on such effects. It also doesn’t feel earned in the same way that an effect that costs Advantage feels earned.
Another way to execute on Trample would be to drop it entirely and instead give the mounts their own attacks, varying the damage, crit, etc. as feels appropriate. Then, “Trample” becomes either the mount’s attack, or an action that allows the rider to use his Riding skill to perform the mount’s attack. This is the approach taken in the SWRPG.

In summary, here’s how I’d approach mount control, movement, and attacks:

  • The rider may spend a Maneuver to control his mount; if he does so, it moves according to his wishes. Otherwise, it moves of its own accord.
  • The rider may have his mount ac/decelerate by 1 speed as an incidental.
  • The mount’s move Maneuvers cover a number of movements equal to its current speed.
  • The rider gains certain special attacks he can perform with his mount.
  • The mount’s weight and speed increase the impact of some melee attacks.

These changes work towards keeping the number of checks at 1 per turn. The way it was written, the character would probably average two rolls per round, ranging from 1 to 3 or even more, depending on how many times he was successfully attacked.

I haven’t made my way all the way through the section, but this was a lot to think through and write down, so I’m going to leave it for you to think about. It may also affect how you want to handle some of the jousting rules and tables, so I’ll wait to see if you want to make any changes there first before continuing. This is kind of a lot, but I hope it’s useful.

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Damn that was a pretty nifty answer, I will take all your advice into the rules. I think I was picturing more a warfare melee where a lot of things go wrong I will make it easier especially for jousting. After copying your tips I will work on the project some more and when it’s safe to playtest it I will open a thread on this as well.

I hope people still enjoy Star Wars and Genesys. I play other systems too but I am so hyped discovering this pretty late. The warhammer 3rd edition was awesome with the dice but felt more like a board game to me but the system is so intuitive and good to play

PS: yes it’s very useful. Let me find some time to work it into the rules and reset some things accordingly and I will reupload the new file asap

PPS: wow my manners I never said thank you but really thank you Thunderbird. Also for correcting my spelling haha I am half German half English but I live in China and I usually only speak and write German here with my colleagues

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I liked this approach and tried to accomodate these rules, it is still wip though. I have a question to good names for mounted archery. I think your suggestion makes mounted archery hard but i feel the idea for taking special talents and equipment (riders bow, archery saddle) to make it a highly difficult but rewarding attack option (similar to monoglian mounted horse archers) is very cool. Any ideas on how a talent could look like for tier1 ,2 and 3 and i am looking for names for those talents as well.

Edit: should trample be available only for Destriers? Or linked to a certain talent, like war rider?

Equipment ideas, like you say, an archery saddle and a recurve bow that remove Setback are wise ideas. To make them effective, they need to have competitors that offer other benefits. You could have a war-saddle that adds bonuses against being unseated, for example, or bows with better range or stronger stats.

Maximum Speed is around 3, so in my proposed Setback-per-speed, bow and saddle would reduce Setback by 2, and if you reduce it with a talent, the respective maximums cancel out.

Trample, I think, should be natural to the mount, and possible by every variety. However, the rider’s talents might add to the effectiveness of the mount’s attacks, either by increasing chance to hit through dice pool manipulation or by increasing damage. I’m not sure how to calculate damage, or if it should be determined arbitrarily. Obviously, a pony won’t do as much damage as a warhorse.

Something else to consider is whether a given horse is trained for war. I’d suggest some feature most mounts share, unless explicitly war horses or given additional training, that increase the difficulty of certain actions made to control the horse. That may get into the realm of being too finicky, but it’s something to consider for the sake of verisimilitude.

Here are some talent ideas. Note that these are basic wordings intended to get across the general concept, and are not fully fleshed-out or precisely worded (I’m not certain of what some skills are called under this houserule set, so use intended use-cases instead).

Horse Archer (basic, Improved, Supreme)

  • Remove 1 Setback from [archery] attacks made from horseback. (~5-10 XP)
  • Gain +1 Defense when on horseback.

Heavy Cavalry (basic, Improved, Supreme)

  • It costs 1 additional Advantage/Threat to unseat the character from his mount. (5 XP)
  • When ridden by the character, the mount’s attacks increase their base damage by his ranks in [riding skill]. (~15-20 XP) (alternatively, adapt Deadly Accuracy’s wording and make it once per round, one hit of any attack by horse or rider while mounted)
  • May suffer 2 Strain to reduce the Difficulty of all [riding] checks made to control a mount in combat. (~20-25 XP)

Other talents to consider (official):

  • Moving Target (Vanguard): If the target has acted, increase Ranged Defense by 1 per rank.
  • Tactical Evasion (ARC Trooper): Upgrade the difficulty of incoming ranged attacks once per Maneuver taken to move in current round.
  • Momentum (Death Watch Warrior): When making a Melee attack, deal additional damage equal to range bands moved in current round.
  • Multiple talents from Beast Rider tree (Ace, Stay on Target sourcebook).

Hope this helps!

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Cool ideas, i will work more on it and will post updates. Thanks a lot

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I see I somehow missed the Supreme talent for Horse Archer… I must have been jumping around too much and got distracted.

Then again, I’m not sure what to put there, so I think I’ll leave it at that for now. I may have had an idea before, but if I did I can’t remember it now.