Those are great points! I’ll consider it. The reason I’m hesitant is that this is one specialization, and most other Force specializations use Discipline and Lore, so there’s lots of talents and powers you can use Discipline for. But Astro really does… nothing. Discipline can help with fear checks, recovering strain after encounters, and powers like Move, Influence, and Protect/Unleash. It gets its use in there. Lore is the catch-all “learn Force stuff” skill, and is probably the main skill you’ll be using to interpret all these visions you’re having, if your GM allows rolls (although I also like Vigilance for interpretation).
Both those skills will get used for things even without talents keyed to them. But Astro… be honest, when was the last time you bought ranks in Astrogation? I think a lot of GMs skip Astro checks altogether, or you get an AI Droid brain for your ship to do it for you. The one thing the skill does is one of the most hand-waved things in the system.
But, despite my protestations, you still make a good point. I’ll consider changing them, or at least one of them.
Well that isn’t how it’s intended to work. I require Astrogation checks for navigation like the RAW does, particularly because cutting down on travel times reduces fuel consumption (and saves money). Astrogation is also used for things like estimating where a pursued ship is going, jumping to hyperspace while under duress (*very important*), recalling information regarding the layout of the galaxy, etc.
I’ve not forgotten you, just bit busy for the time being, will explain myself a bit more detail later :)
The main reasons I wanted to change Hidden Signs to Galaxy Mapper (even though the name doesn’t make sense for this use as the system is not built for that, but it shouldn’t be a problem):
1, it’s already a dedicated talent to remove setback from Astrogation which that part of the tree heavily relies on
2, This kind of seback removal ranked talents are usually for 1 or 2 skills, only the more restricted or less used have additional powers to compensate (the one for purchasing black market stuff and maybe the Expert Tracker). Comparing to those, your talent removes setback from a variety of skill checks, because it’s not limited. I could imagine Perception, (your version of) Astrogation, Discipline and many more for interpreting dreams / putting together clues.
On top of that it also boosts the related Force checks, essentially doubles their effectiveness (1 pip for 1 more detail? Here’s one more!)
It does the same and more as the comparable talents, more flexible and has a neat secondary use.
That’s one of the talents I feel overpowered in the tree
Maybe if you separate the 2 abilities? Instead of Well Rounded you could add another custom talent for the second part on the Force branch. I have similar reasons as @P-47Thunderbolt mentioned already about the career skills, that the tree is very specific even if you distribute the skills across the “dreamwalker” talents (which tbh I like as Astrogation) and I don’t feel the need for more career skills in this spec either.
Only thing I’d change about Hidden Signs is removing the third effect.
So “remove Setback” and “take half time,” but drop “additional detail.”
I think it makes sense to have the talent apply to a specific sort of check rather than blanket to a certain skill.
Based on Rimsen’s comments, I was thinking of dropping it from “+1/rank per activation” to a flat “+1/rank.” That way, for maxed-out Foresee, it’s basically 1 free pip spent on Strength if you have both ranks, and for Seek its effectively +1/2 pip into Magnitude, at maximum.
I don’t want to get rid of the effect entirely, because of the issue I mentioned above that not all GMs allow tools for interpretation and want players to do the working-out themselves, so that option is there for them to get something from it. But you’ve convinced me the original version was too potent! Does that seem better?
I’m making the same argument that I made before, but how often does the “takes 1/2 time” effect of these talents come into play ? I could remove that part too, if you’d like, but it’s also something that doesn’t affect much, I feel?
Yes, but ranked talents typically have a benefit like “remove Setback” then a single, minor effect, like “halve time” or “insert extra effect.”
I think it would be best to split one of the effects off into it’s own talent, like “Technical Aptitude.”
If you come up with mechanics for dreaming similar to crafting, that’ll really come in handy as it reduces the amount of time they have to dedicate.
Can I make a comparison? Secret Lore. It’s a ranked talent with 2 ranks. It gives Setback removal, and lowers the difficulty of ALL lore checks by one. That is very strong and gives a broad scope, considering Lore is basically the “know everything about the Force” skill.
Yes, it’s technically only two effects. But is a narrower field of applicable checks, half time, and +1 pip at most to very specific uses of specific Force powers the same strength as Secret Lore? Secret Lore is probably better for interpreting dreams, as Lore is probably the skill you’d use, anyway, so you’re getting the same Setback removal and a decreased difficulty. Plus it does all other Lore-based research, too.
If you think so, then I’ll chop out the half time effect.
EDIT: Please don’t think I’m rejecting your advice, I really appreciate the thoughts! I just want to make sure we’re not rejecting something that’s functional just because it’s non-standard. I bet that if someone home-brewed Secret Lore, everyone here would say it was bonkers broken, and we should be wary of a “reduce difficulty” effect because we’ve never seen it before.
Yup, I get it. But Secret Lore actually isn’t that unusual. It falls into the same category of “Primary effect [ranked]/secondary effect [ranked?]” as many talents, and the difficulty decrease is not unprecedented (Codebreaker comes to mind).
Actually, I don’t think I’d use Lore for interpreting dreams. At least not as the default.
I’d change up the skill depending on the content, context, and intent of the dream. It’d likely usually be Perception, Vigilance, or a Knowledge skill, but Astrogation if it was a vision of a planet or star cluster, Mechanics if it was a vision of complex machinery, Discipline if trying to parse confusing signs and signals, Cool if the visions were frightening, etc.
Then if Lore comes up, the person who’s particularly good at Knowledge (Lore) gets to use their added bonuses.
I’d recommend chopping out the time effect, possibly making it a separate talent similar to Technical Aptitude, but that would depend on what mechanics you use for dreaming.
Okay, I’ve changed it! And once again, you’re showing my how poor my creativity is, because this check options for interpreting dreams and visions are very good .
? I could remove that part too, if you’d like, but it’s also something that doesn’t affect much, I feel?