How does Smuggler Gunslinger Call ‘em Talent work? Does a success give you a narrative CRIT or TRIUMPH result every time..? HELP!

Rules & Game Mechanics
#1

Hello!

I am GMing an Edge of the Empire game for some friends. One of them is playing a Smuggler and has taken the Gunslinger specialization.

One of the talents available to him is called “Call ‘em” - a 15 point expenditure Talent on the tree.

The talent says: “Do not add black die/dice to combat checks due to the use of the Aim maneuver.” This references the use of the AIM maneuver where a person could target a specific feature (hand, knee, face, weapon) of their target as found in the EotE core rule book on page 201. In doing so, that person would add one or maybe two black dice to their dice pool if attempting to shoot the gun out of an enemy’s hand (for instance).

[Does this talent allow the user to remove ANY AND ALL black dice…?? If so, wow!! What if it is a really hard shot: “I shoot the comlink held by the AT-ST driver THROUGH the vehicle window while at Medium Range and running from an angry Dewback. OK, the angry Dewback is a bit much. But you get the idea.]

The talent is certainly intriguing and if used, could lead to some cool cinematic scenes.

The issue was raised however, that maybe this talent (if the PC rolled Success or Successes) might “break” the Triumph and Critical Hit rules by having an enemy - for instance - shot in the face be “blinded” on rolling one or more uncanceled Successes (on Crit Result Table 116-120 Blinded: The target can no longer see. Upgrade the difficulty of all checks twice. Upgrade the difficulty of Perception and Vigilance checks three times).

Or, having an enemy’s weapon shot out of his hands on one or more uncanceled Successes (on Crit Result Table 11-15: The target drops whatever is in hand).

If the reason why the PC shot the enemy’s weapon was to MAKE the weapon drop out of his hand, and successes were rolled and not canceled, would that mean the weapon DOES drop out of his hands?

Yes…?

No…?

If “no” then does the weapon itself take the damage of the blaster bolt hit and become sundered? Does the weapon explode…? (Causing MORE damage not just to the weapon, but also to the enemy holding the weapon…?).

Is this talent one that is too powerful and bends the system too much…? Do Successes make Triumph results redundant? [And give the player narrative CRIT results that didn’t come from spending earned Advantages or Triumphs…?]

What does everyone think? Thanking everyone now for their insight and input to help my understanding. :slightly_smiling_face:

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#2

Welcome to the forum! We’re glad to have you.

To answer your first question, all it means is that when you use the Called Shot use of the Aim Maneuver, you apply none of the Setback that the particular use of the Aim Maneuver would usually add.

Here’s the exact language of the talent (assuming my source is accurate, as I don’t have the book):

This character does not add any Setback to her combat checks due to the use of the Aim maneuver.

“Due to” is the important clause here, clarifying that it’s only Setback added to the check by the performance of the Aim Maneuver (which, in the case of Called Shot, is two).
This is similar to the Built-In Blaster Sight:

Remove a Setback added by the Called Shot use of the Aim maneuver from Ranged (Light) and Ranged (Heavy) checks.

The main difference is that the blaster sight only removes one, requiring a second Aim Maneuver to remove the second Setback.

In the situation you describe (AT-ST), I would say that those Setback are NOT from the use of the Aim Maneuver. Rather, you add 2 Setback (then 0) for the use of the Aim Maneuver, then through the AT-ST window is a qualifier that would add at least two Setback, and running from an angry dewback would probably add another Setback or two.

The only Setback added to the check BY THE USE of the Aim Maneuver are the first 2 Setback. The others are situational.

No. Not unless you want it to.
But I would never automatically inflict a Critical Injury, even if I “borrow” some effects from the table.

On success, I would apply a basic malus to the target. With Advantage, that could be increased, and with Triumph, perhaps crit that location instead.

Target eyes, to blind: I would not actually allow this. It’s sort of like saying “Can I headshot to instakill?” and is where you are well within your rights to simply say no. Practically, this is ridiculous on several levels (but if using some kind of non-lethal “flash” weapon, this could actually be clever and effective).
Target leg, to hobble: Sure. If you hit, then the target can’t take Move Maneuvers next turn (contrast to Crippling Blow, which increases difficulty once and inflicts one Strain whenever the target moves).
Weapon hand, to disarm: Absolutely. I have to put aside my realist qualms with the idea of shooting the leg, hand, or other appendage in order to say so, but that isn’t so hard since I grew up on old westerns, in which “shoot to disarm” is a staple. However, I would not apply damage from this attack, since it’s targeting the held item. Maybe Advantage could be used to inflict Wounds on a 1:1 ratio.

Triumph (and specifically Triumph) ideas:

  • Inflict an actual crit.

You hit the leg/arm, so actually crit him! Crippled is below 100, and has the effect the character was looking for. Since it’s a high crit, one can argue that it fixes it and makes it too easy to get a specific crit, but that’s pretty much the point of the talent. If you think it’s a balance concern, just don’t allow it. This is a spot where the rules are not at all definite, leaving it up to the GM.

  • Sunder a held item.

Usually, you couldn’t do this without the Sunder quality. But since you’re specifically targeting an item and it’s a Triumph result, go for it! As far as exploding, if you’re targeting something particularly volatile like the fuel tanks for a flamethrower, I’d apply that on straight success. Maybe require the player to spend Advantage to activate Blast, as if the attack’s profile became that of an explosive weapon. Bear in mind that this is similar to the Triumph result on the combat table, which is effectively identical. Forego dealing damage with your attack (by shooting the item) in order to destroy it (incidentally exploding and dealing damage).

What does the talent really do? Remove two Setback, one if you have a Built-In Blaster Sight. Effectively, two Setback is the equivalent of a single difficulty die. The relatively low-impact odds difference itself makes it not broken.

Your concern is with the Called Shot use of Aiming itself, and for that it comes down to how you rule it. I can offer suggestions, but it comes down to you, as the GM, in concert with your players, to decide how it will function at your table.

I hope this helps!

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#3

Each called shot would damage the target weapon 1 step, maybe 2 steps if the GM allows the triumph to be spent as well, so it’s not that overpowered since I believe it takes 3 steps to make a weapon not usable (pg 159, EoE Core Rulebook). During the amount of turns it takes to damage the weapon that much, the enemy would be spending their action to shoot back (albeit with a setback or increased difficulty based on how damaged the weapon is) and could be doing wound damage while the gunslinger isn’t damaging the opponent at all.

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#4

Yes, thank you both (P-47 & SuperWookiee) …. You give me good stuff to ponder and I appreciated the step by step breakdown of how this talent works.

I overlook (in the heat of the moment of GMing) the notion that black dice can derive from multiple situational sources, and the text “does not add any Setback to her combat checks” often cuts my cognitive processing of the situation short. [All eyes on the GM…gotta make that quick ruling and keep the pace of the game going!]

This was really helpful!

Thanks again!

While I have your interest … do you agree then that Setback dice are the only fair way for a GM to “increase the difficulty” for particularly hard shots (like the AT-ST example in initial post)…?

If I remember correct, ranged heavy and ranged light difficulties are determined by RANGE and that is it. Odd angles, poor lighting, tiny openings to shoot into…that would all be Setback dice? Would either of you entertain INCREASING difficulty with MORE difficulty dice OR upgrading [without GM having to flip Destiny Point] for such a shot? Or is this strictly the realm of more Setback dice?

Thoughts…?

:slight_smile:

Thanking everyone again for their great insights~!

#5

For me, shooting into an AT-ST cockpit would be all Setbacks—at least two, maybe more. Now, shooting from a stampeding Dewback, I’d definitely consider a situational Upgrade. That’s a pretty dangerous thing to do and a Despair would be perfect for the character getting bucked off the mount.

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#6

Opponents with Adversary would also upgrade the difficulty based on their adversary rank. If you have an important opponent, give them some ranks of that to help protect them.

#7

I agree with @rogue_09, but to extrapolate:
Difficulty is the basic- err… difficulty of a task. Like a speed limit, it’s for a “neutral” situation with good conditions. “What’s the difficulty to shoot a man-sized target at twenty yards on a clear, sunny day, but not too sunny?”
Setback and upgrades then increase the “actual difficulty” by applying the influence of poor conditions or complicating factors.

An AT-ST cockpit would provide cover, i.e. Ranged Defense. I’d make it two or three, depending on how generous I’m feeling, since firing through a slit like that is very difficult at the best of times. Probably two if it’s standing still and three if it’s moving.

Situational upgrades are definitely permissible, like Rogue_09 said. I wouldn’t do it any time Despair would have a very nasty result, but when it would (messing with homemade explosives, shooting from the back of a stampeding dewback, etc.), ask yourself if the same thing that makes Despair so dangerous also inherently makes the task more difficult, or if the chance of catastrophe is so high that the chance for Despair must be present. If yes to either question, then consider adding a situational upgrade (which you, as GM, have the freedom to do).

Unless there are GM-secrety reasons why you can’t, I’d always suggest explaining to your players why you add Setback and Upgrades.

What I would not do in that situation is increase the difficulty, with one exception: If you only have four Setback dice but you’re trying to add six to the roll, it’s more convenient to add a single Difficulty die since one Difficulty die is similar, but a little bit inferior, to two Setback.
(3/4 Threat and 1/2 Failure, with 1/8 chance of being blank versus 2/3 Threat and 2/3 Failure, with 1/9 chance of being blank, and 3/8 chance of rolling two symbols versus 4/9.)

I don’t do that and just record the results, then reroll the Setback dice, but it’s a matter of taste.

#8

Adding setback dice also make players feel good about taking/having talents that remove setback dice from certain skill checks. Just like the Gunslinger spec does for called shots.

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#9

Agreed, don’t go tossing Upgrades all willy-nilly. Lean on Setbacks first. This is also a great way to justify a Destiny Point flip. “You’re doing what from the back of a what?? Oh, this is wild and dangerous, so I’m flipping this to add a red die into the mix.” That way you’re crafting the feel of the moment while building the dice pool. I like doing that because it’s a conscious action which gets my players invested in how meaningful the action can be.

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