Alright, let’s take stock of the current situation:
Talent list:
Armor Master
Armor Master (Improved)
Beskar 1
Beskar 2
Dedication
Dodge (2)
Forager
Grit
Intimidating
Jury Rigged
Nobody’s Fool
Outdoorsman (2)
Point Blank
Pushy Talker
Swift
This is the Way
Toughened (2)
20 total.
Tier 1:
Forager
Outdoorsman
This is the Way
Toughened
Tier 2:
Grit
Armor Master
Dodge
Nobody’s Fool
Tier 3:
Jury Rigged (I think move this to Tier 4)
Pushy Talker (Definitely keep here)
Swift (Definitely keep here)
Toughened (2) (Either this or Point Blank could be moved)
Intimidating (I suppose we should move this to Tier 4, one social talent for tiers 2-4)
Outdoorsman (Definitely keep here)
Point Blank (Either this or Toughened [2] could be moved)
Tier 4:
Armor Master (Improved) (Considering how many Tier 3 talents we have, push this to Tier 5)
Dodge (2)
Tier 5:
Beskar 1
Beskar 2
Dedication.
Custom Talents:
This is the Way: The character adds 2 Boost to Charm, Leadership, and Negotiation checks targeting Mandalorians of their clan or faction. At GM discretion, the character can lose this bonus if they betray their clan or do not abide by the sect’s rules.
Pushy Talker: The character may use Willpower instead of Presence when making Negotiation checks.
Beskar 1: Once per encounter after the character suffers a Critical Injury but before the result is rolled, they may suffer strain up to Soak+Defense to reduce the roll by a number equal to the amount of strain suffered, multiplied by ten.
Beskar 2: ?
Sorry I’ve been silent for the past few days. I mostly agree with your suggestions, but I do have a few questions and concerns.
First: when you list the talents, are you listing them as if they were from left to right, or just as you thought of them?
Second: I think if we’re just gonna push Armor Master (Improved) to T5 then we might as well drop it. That’s pretty far down to go for a talent that isn’t that uncommon, and can be found in the same relative area in all other Mando trees and Gadgeteer.
Third: I think we can replace one of the beskar talents (the one we were removing in the first place) with that armor weapon system related talent. It could probably take the place of a T4 or 5 row spot.
As for that, I think I’m gonna do something simple in the way of letting them spend a Destiny point to gain a second attack action with a mounted weapon once per session. I like that because of its simplicity, and it’s not overpowered but it’s strong enough to make a player feel unstoppable, if only briefly.
Lastly, do you have any recommendations for the layout connection wise? I’m not looking for a roadmap, just a general rule to follow, or an idea you would like to suggest.
(PS: I’ve gone with your recommendation for This Is The Way when it comes to rebalancing it)
Depends on the layout. It’s Tier 4 on the Death Watch Warrior tree, but you have to cut off to the side to get to it (beeline is 80). On the Commando tree, it’s just like DWW, but directly above the 20 XP talent with no other connection point (beeline is 105). On Gadgeteer, it’s Tier 5 and over one (beeline is 100). With a fresh tree, you could make it a beeline of 75 and still put it on tier 5.
I don’t think so. If you’re looking at Din Djarin for inspiration here, what did you see that made it look like he could make an attack with the wrist mounted weapon as a maneuver? Anytime he used one (that I remember at least), it was like a solo combat check, not like he performed two combat checks in a round.
Not at the moment, as I’ve gotten caught up in a couple other projects.
Try to have the talents make a logical progression. It doesn’t have to be extremely regimented, but think of how the character would narrratively progress through the tree. Once you’ve come up with something, I’ll give feedback.
I do think that he’s been able to make two attacks before a single opponent before, but that’s beyond the point and I see what you’re saying. So, I think I have a different idea. If you look at the Stats for Grand Admiral Thrawn he has one Ability called The Art of War. It’s very strong, as it should be for a Nemesis of his caliber, but I think a lesser version could be made for this tree.
I like Those Odds:
Often in the show we see Mando fighting against multiple opponents, getting pinned down, and overall getting bested by his opponents. With or without allies this tends to happen. Despite that, he more often than not overcomes these challenges whether it be through quick thinking (think the P3 Dark Trooper or the Kyrat Dragon), or sheer determination (the pirates or Morak or the troopers on the Gozanti).
Once per session during a combat encounter, as a maneuver (TBD) may make a (I’m thinking have it be Hard, Daunting, or base it off of the combat they’re in) Survival or Discipline check. For the next number of rounds equal to the ranking of the characteristic used, each success will add an automatic success to all skill checks made against an enemy.
I think that’s adept enough to make a T5 slot and have the ump I was looking for. If anyone has any suggestions for that (Difficulty, should it require a destiny point, mechanics, a different name, etc) I’d love to hear it.
Edit: I’ve gone ahead and edited the tree now. I went ahead and put in I Like Those Odds, and kept Beskar Held Up to Per Round instead of per encounter (I’m personally ok with them being able to do that if they can pull it off, so that’s really just personal preference). If you have any worries or concerns, lmk. MandoSurvivor.pdf (328.6 KB)
This is the Way: Adjust wording to “by the rules or values of the” from “by any rules or values set by this.”
Beskar Held Up: Hmm, I guess that’s okay. It’s pretty similar to Supreme Armor Master, but I suppose my original thoughts on Beskar Held Up made it directly inferior to that talent.
Yeah, I say go with it.
If it wasn’t for Supreme Armor Master, I’d want to change the limiting principle to once per encounter.
(edit: The other argument is for what happens when you have both talents)
I don’t like I Like Those Odds as it’s currently written. I’ll think more on modifying it.
The layout is okay, but not great. Maybe swap Pushy Talker and Swift, Nobody’s Fool and Grit, and This is the Way with Forager.
This puts the social talents more concentrated on the left, and the Survival-type talents more concentrated on the right along with the combat talents. Having Intimidating and Pushy Talker so far apart doesn’t make much sense to me, considering what they are gated by.
Thanks for spotting that.
Looking at the stats, Armor Master only does it by how much soak a user has, it only costs 3 strain, and still will result in a crit with a minimum of at least one. Beskar on the other hand allows soak and defense, but each point in either costs the user a strain, and it can completely reduce a crit to zero. So they both do the same thing but differently, it’s basically a pick your poison type of deal and I’m ok with that.
And if I might ask, what is it about I Like Those Odds that turns you off?
My dum dum brain currently can’t figure out how to upload an image of the tree with a PDF, but it does put up a link to the pdf itself. In anycase, I reredid it for version 2.1 so here it is: MandoSurvivor.pdf (328.2 KB)
That is an oversight, it shouldn’t do that. The only talent that allows “reducing to 0” is Unstoppable.
I don’t like that it simply adds straight success in any circumstance. What you describe is like “he’s really outnumbered, but he manages to pull through.”
The problem with that is that it’s usually not all that outnumbered by game standards, to the point where it wouldn’t be too hard for him to pull through. For example, his “I like those odds” quote was when he was a facing a single minion group of four stormtroopers and an elderly Imperial with no real combat ability.
Or in the intro for Season 2, that’s maybe one minion group and one combative rival, with a second rival who likely has a Ranged (Light) pool of YG.
Neither of those situations are especially difficult by PC standards when you’re that advanced, meaning that the precedent for adding the talent is very weak, and on top of that the talent applies in any situation, not just when hopelessly outnumbered.
And as written, the talent lets you add Success(es) to combat checks for the entire encounter, which is more than anything else I am aware of.
Closest comparison is Hunter’s Quarry, which allows you to make a Hard Survival check as an Action to upgrade all checks against a single target once until the end of the character’s next turn.
I don’t have the full text of the talent, so I don’t know what other conditions or benefits there might be, but that’s pretty small by comparison.
It’s also worth noting that you become basically your own walking Battle Meditation (which requires FR 3), except potentially better, with the only drawback being that it only affects you.
It’s really a miniature Signature Ability.
One idea for a beskar talent would be to make one comparable to Center of Being, but always active and at only +1, just to make it a bit harder to trigger crits. But I’m not sure that’s the right way to go.
I had been thinking about that. I figured the career skills would be;
Coordination
Discipline
Piloting (Planetary)
Resilience
Melee
Ranged (Heavy)
Ranged (Light)
Knowledge: Warfare
But I think they’re still better as separate universal specs. Mandalorians could potentially be almost anything; a medic, a mechanic, a slicer, a pilot, a heavy weapons specialist, etc. I prefer the idea of picking an existing career that suits the style of character and then adding the appropriate Mando tree on top.
I don’t disagree, and I felt Force and Destiny did the Jedi right by doing the same for them. However, we later got the highly focused Jedi career & specs, so it’s natural that some would want to do the same for Mandalorians. By the time of SW:ANH, I think both are best served with variable careers and “diluted but diverse” approaches, but I could see a dedicated “pure” Mandalorian career & specs for time periods where the Mandalorians are more numerous and organized.
Sorry to Necro this, but I’ve been wanting to add this spec to my game and I also am not a fan of “I like those odds” and was hoping to workshop a viable replacement ‘Signature Talent’.
To that end I’d like to throw in: Mandalorian Iron Will
Once per encounter, after being hit by an attack that resulted in a critical injury, the character may spend 4 strain to ignore the effect of that critical injury.
For the remainder of the encounter, whenever an enemy makes an attack targeting the character, count the critical rating of the enemy’s weapon as one higher.
Naturally its a play on beskar being known as Mandalorian Iron and is meant to make the character more survivable rather than simply better at combat. My only concern is it can be used with Beskar Held Up…but also gives a player a tactical choice “Do I use my once per encounter ability and take the hit but ignore the effects…or do I suffer potentially more strain to reduce it down?”
That’s pretty similar to existing talents that allow you to ignore the effects of crits, while also adding an additional buff.
The 4 Strain cost is pretty steep.
Beskar Held Up is about reducing the roll, this allows you to ignore the effect. It’s also “any” effect rather than being specifically targeted.
Survivor’s Instincts would be a pretty good existing talent to add at tier 4 or 5, allowing you to force a reroll. It doesn’t hurt that it shares a name with the tree.
The name is a tad long, but pretty good. I like the pun.
I don’t have much time to focus on this right now, so all I can really do is toss this stream-of-consciousness at you. I’ll give it some thought when I can and try to come up with something more specific.
How about this as an option? Weapon Culture
This character does not attract negative attention from law enforcement for owning restricted weapons.
If the character is ever in a situation where they are required to disarm their weapons, at the GM’s discretion this character may be exempt from that requirement.
Adds a very thematic, but pragmatically useful talent. While very understated, the ability to carry around restricted weapons and not get any penalties for it is not to be snarked at. For added utility there’s the second section.
That works alright, though I’d say at a lower tier.
It’s a tricky talent in that it’s so narrative, which requires the GM to put the characters in circumstances where it is relevant (though the talent’s existence is likely to put the idea in an otherwise-unconsidering GM’s head).
My argument against it is that it shouldn’t be exclusive to Mandalorians who have the talent. If you have a bunch of Mandos, why would one receive that accommodation and the others don’t? Why would one receive negative attention, until he suddenly purchases the talent? That’s the other sticky issue with narratively-based talents.
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I’m seeing flaws better than I’m seeing solutions right now, so I may be stuck saying “no” for a bit. :P
