After some discussion on Machaeus’ thread about making changes to how careers work, I came up with the following post. There was enough interest in it that I decided to start a new thread with the same post so as not to derail Machaeus’ thread. What follows is that post, minus the opening paragraph and edited for clarity.
The Jedi career (spread between the two CW sourcebooks) has only four specializations, while every other career in the game has six. That leaves two holes in the Jedi career line-up. Furthermore, one of the Jedi specializations - General - seems a bit era-specific (there have been eras which saw Jedi acting as generals - such as pre-Ruusan Reformation and during the CW - and others which didn’t). So there could be an argument for a third hole in the line-up, depending upon the era in which the game is being played.
One solution would be to allow a “home-brew” version of the Jedi career, one personalised for each Jedi character. This could be done either with help from a single FaD career (adding two or three trees from one single FaD career - including the relevant career book - on top of the Jedi’s Padawan/Knight/Master and possibly General base) or by picking two or three trees with a single theme. No more than one tree (or possibly two trees in the case of a Warrior-focused Jedi) would be a lightsabre form tree, preferably from the same career as the other new additions if on a single-career track such as Jedi Consular.
The associated signature ability would be Peerless Interception, or possibly one from the most relevant career sourcebook.
This solution has the advantage that it does not require the invention of new trees and talents - and avoids the accompanying headache of trying to balance correctly the contents of said new trees.
Examples of such “home-brewed”/personalised Jedi careers:
- Knight-Healer/MedCorps track could have career access to: Padawan, Knight, Master, Niman, Healer, and Sage.
- Jedi Archivist/EduCorps: Padawan, Knight, Master, Niman, Sage, and Teacher. Or possibly a non-lightsabre form tree instead of Niman.
- Jedi Consular (a more generic track than Knight-Healer or Jedi Archivist): Padawan, Knight, Master, Niman, Arbiter, and Sage (or Advisor instead of Niman).
- Jedi Artisans/tech-heads: Padawan, Knight, Master, Soresu, Artisan, and Armorer. Or possibly a non-lightsabre form tree instead of Soresu.
- Knight-Pilot/ExplorCorps*: Padawan, Knight, Master, Starfighter Ace, Navigator, and Artisan (needs to be able to fix the ship!).
- Jedi Hermit/Seeker/AgriCorps: Padawan, Knight, Master, Pathfinder, Hermit, Sage (or Ascetic).
- Jedi Shadow/Sentinel: Padawan, Knight, Master, Shien, Shadow, and Investigator (or Sentry instead of Shien).
- Jedi Guardian: Padawan, Knight, Master, Soresu, Protector, Peacekeeper. Such a character would likely try to pick up the out-of-career Shien tree as well.
- Jedi Mystic: Padawan, Knight, Master, Seer, Ascetic, Advisor.
- Jedi Warrior: Padawan, Knight, Master, Shii-Cho, Colossus, and Aggressor. This style of “brute” would probably not be common aside from unfortunate characters like Pong Krell. Juyo (including the Vaapad talents if that training is available from Windu or others after him) could be substituted for Colossus or Aggressor.
*ExplorCorps characters could also be more diplomatically- or wilderness-oriented instead (such as the Consular or AgriCorp tracks).
There are some FaD/sourcebook specializations which haven’t make it onto this list at all (at least so far). Usually it’s because they either seem a bit too non-Jedi to me (more like a Sith or another Force tradition) or there’s not enough room for them in the theme’s career (with a limit of six specializations).
For example: while I’m sure that a Knight-Pilot would enjoy and benefit from the Racer tree, it would still have to be picked up as an out-of-career specialization. (He flies starfighters and other starships for the Jedi Order for a living; swoop bikes and pod-racing are only a hobby.)
I already shared this with Bellona, but copying it here for everyone else too.
Jedi Craftsman - Padawan, Knight, Master, Armorer, Artisan, Alchemist.
I like the idea of coming up careers thematically, but mechanically nothing stops the player to get them. It only costs +30 XP aquiring all trees.
Unlike most EotE and AoR characters, Jedi career (and FaD in general) characters are also expected to spend XP on Force power acquisition. Therefore any XP that can be saved is a benefit (“every little bit counts”).
Some of the custom careers might do well with some specs added from EoE and AoR as well. Not all FaD specs have +1 Force Rating, so it’s not a big deal to have a few mixed in there.
I was thinking of some kind of combo with the Spy specs added to Jedi. Some kind of infiltrator.
However, all of them do have Force talents.
They have some powerful options themselves, like Deadly Accuracy or Coordination Dodge.
I would prefer not to combine non-FaD/Jedi trees with any of the EotE/AoR trees.
My original starting point was to expand the Jedi career so that it would have six specialization trees just like every other career in all the lines, but reflect the various types of Jedi seen in movies, series, novels, comics, and computer games. But I still want to keep it as a Jedi career (which was why my original list left out some FaD-line trees).
However, as is often the case, “your mileage may vary”.
The simplest solution we found was to allow any Jedi career character to pick up a specialty from an FaD career at career cost. Then all specialties from this career count as Jedi career specialities allowing access to its signature abilities. The character is still limited to 2 signatures abilities, so if the player takes the Jedi career one he / she can take only one another.
Once a speciality from a FaD career is chosen, all other specialities from other FaD carees cost the usual for out of career specialties. Except the Saber form ones. Those are always bought as career specialities for a Jedi character. But they don’t allow access to the signatures abilities from their FaD career.
Taking a specialty from a FaD career that allow access toits signature ability can be seen as becoming a more specialised Jedi.
Another solution may be to treat the Jedi Specializations as universal specializations if the players have an adequate source of training Master/Holocron etc. This could replace existing mentor or holocron bonus. That being said I posted your idea of Jedi (Consular/Guardian etc) on reddit a while back and was quickly informed that idea was broken and wrong.
House rules are never wrong. You might not like them, but to each their own.
Reddit, also, isn’t the arbiter of what people are allowed to do.
I don’t know what Reddit’s case is, but as long as we’re passing judgement on how people play the game I’d say Reddit is broken and wrong. xD
What, truly, is at stake here? 10 XP per Specialization.
That alone makes it not “broken and wrong” because the potential damage is virtually non-existent. Even late game, when the characters have five specs, we’re only talking 20-30 XP saved. That’s, what? Two sessions? Tops?
But treating the Jedi specializations as universal specializations is a good suggestion, and personally how I would tend to treat them. I don’t like the “standard Jedi” idea because there were so many different specialties, and I don’t like the linear progression. If I were to be making a game from the ground up with the Jedi specs as options, they would be treated as thematic universal specializations, nothing more.
And by thematic, I mean something like your mention of mentor or holocron bonuses for a post-Order 66 time period, or else simply a player’s choice to accept a tree that fits their current station (a Jedi master takes Master, a Jedi padawan takes Padawan) in a pre-Order 66 time period.
I think @Bellona’s suggestion is a good one, sound and thematically appropriate. Not how I would choose to rule it, but certainly a reasonable approach which encourages specialization into more distinctive roles, unlike the basic Jedi career.
I thought about this while I was driving to pick up my dinner (since I blasted out that response rather quickly). 10 XP isn’t something that is going to break a game, where you have access to every specialization.
Id contend that niman-disciple is kind of a/the standard jedi form so it should be an option for inclusion in the career regardless of whatever other career is chosen.
Edit: there is crazy good synergy between the knight and master jedi specs and the niman disciple consular spec.
And ive always been fond of the character
Edit: he’s pretty close to a shaolin monk which is the closest real world analog to a jedi.
But With the poprosed rule my inclination would be to pick up steel hand adept as the career to get unmatched ferocity, and then take niman disciple as out of career.
Edit if there was a second standard jedi form it’d be soresu and that’s very well represented by the combination of the knight spec and peerless interception signature ability.
An alternative rule, since jedi are supposed to be about balance and well roundedness would be pick one spec each from 3 different f&d careers and a signature ability from 1 of them. Id choose niman-disciple, sentry, and steelhand adept
In fact that’s what i already did in this build
But really that’s a really powerful build so maybe saving the xp isn’t a good idea